Author Archives: Gregg Monteith

35: Love is More Than Grace

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In this episode John compares grace and love.  Specifically, John contrasts a listener’s story and Gregg’s story (both being fairly radical departures from the Christian norm) with his own path of not overtly departing from these norms.  John’s epiphany is that the message of love makes far more sense than the message of grace (to him), because grace seems to begin with the notion that someone is horrible.

Gregg notes that grace implies a jarring sense of contrast with what one believes one deserves and so grace seems to show up better in relief, against a backdrop of wrongs committed.  So Gregg contrasts grace and love: experiencing God’s grace is typically framed as receiving what one does not deserve, but Gregg’s experience of receiving God’s love was receiving what he needed but considered to be impossible.  So the upshot is that if one sees oneself as being thoroughly undeserving of God’s love (God’s love is nonsensical to that person), they will necessarily experience God’s love first as grace.  But the pardon and gift implicit in grace find their source in God’s love–they are an expression of love.

Ultimately then, in Gregg’s view, the purpose of grace is to habituate us to being in a love relationship with God: first to accepting God’s love for us as love (so that we may see ourselves as deserving of God’s love), second to be able to give that love back (so that we see ourselves as capable–capable of being rightly related to God, to ourselves, and to others).
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34: Beyond Salvation | Listener Feedback

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In this episode John and Gregg discuss listener feedback from Joanne, on Episode 31. Joanne commented on relating to God as “father” and “abba.”  Joanne explained this with reference to Romans 8:15, which refers to people being adopted into God’s family contrasted with earlier parts of Romans that also touches on slavery–a topic Kyle Idleman hit hard in Not a Fan.

Gregg identifies similarities in both Joanne’s and, earlier, Melinda’s comments and in his responses to both, where Gregg distinguished ‘how’ something takes place versus ‘why’ it takes place.  While John wonders about the significance of adoption in contrast to slavery, Gregg clarifies the context and purpose of the book of Romans.  In brief, Romans argues for the legitimacy of Jesus as the messiah who fulfills the covenant and bears the consequences for Israel’s failure, in Israel’s place.  In this way, the promise to Abraham is also fulfilled and as such non-Jews are now invited to enter into right relationship with God.  Hence “adoption.”
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33: God is Not an Idiot–Grace and Truth | Listener Feedback

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Today’s discussion is kicked off by comments that listener Melinda left for Episode #25, which is also related to Episode #20, were the topic of grace versus love was also raised.

Gregg then turns to John to define and contextualize the notion of grace is in the evangelical world.  John equates grace with ‘pardon’ and as something that should prompt gratefulness from Christians (which in turn means stopping sinning and fulfilling the “great commission”).  Gregg summarizes this as grace being a hinge between the old testament period and the new covenant, and grace being a contender for the central notion in Christianity.

Gregg finds it difficult to identify examples of grace in his human relationships and instead sees grace as being rather distinct to God.  Further, he categorizes grace as an outworking of love, where grace (as gift, on the example of Romans 4:16) is a primary mode of the expression of God’s love.  Yet the gift at the heart of grace begins back in Genesis 12 with God giving a promise to Abraham before entering into a covenant.
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31: Coerced Obedience | Chap 14 of Not A Fan by Kyle Idleman

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After a long journey we’ve finally arrived: Chapter 14 of Not a Fan by Kyle Idleman, the book’s end.  This is perhaps our most important episode on this book as it gets to heart of what we find wrong in Idleman’s “reward and punishment” approach to Christianity.

So in the place of Idleman’s view that following Jesus means obeying (i.e., “letting go” of what is keeping us from following Jesus), Gregg proposes three interrelated steps that necessarily precede and prepare for obedience (and explain why obedience may not be possible or even intelligible, depending upon someone’s current circumstances).

First comes belief: whether the notion of a divine being seems plausible for a given person.  Second is understanding: rightly conceiving of who God is and what the human / divine relationship is supposed to be.  Third is trust: having both the basic belief in the divine and a firm understanding of the specifics of who God is and what the divine / human relationship is about, obedience requires a certain degree of trust based on our past experiences that indicate that God is indeed trustworthy! Without these components it’s unrealistic to think people can blindly obey God as a lasting behavior.

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30: Swallow the Pill | Chap 13 of Not A Fan by Kyle Idleman

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Gregg opens with his view that Chapter 13 from Not a Fan by Kyle Idleman is among the most important in the entire book.  This is because it connects to (and helps clarify) the book’s core message: insuring people make “the right decision” and spend eternity in heaven.  In John’s words, the chapter emphasizes the need to “get your fire insurance policy in place before it’s too late.”

So when Idleman presents scenarios to motivate readers to make “the right decision” now and not put it off, John finds this inconsistent: when you love someone you are naturally committed to them and desirous of “doing the right thing” or spending time together–you don’t “put it off.”  So John highlights the irony that Idleman wants us to force (or even guilt) ourselves into a deeper commitment to Jesus, yet the relational content of Christianity is so sparsely presented!  For John, this presentation is ultimately empty and unsustainable: while the Bible may truly present who God is, such “truth” has no “reality” because there is no relationship (and so no life) in it.

Next, Idleman characterizes adult conversion to Christianity as occurring in moments of desperation when we are willing to “surrender all” to God.  John equates this with the book’s contention that becoming a Christian means becoming “a zero.”  Gregg also disagrees: because relationship with God is based on love (as the command to love God entirely), so the desperation + surrender model was never meant to be the norm.

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