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In this episode John asks Gregg to clarify the terms “truth claims” and “truth values,” mentioned in the notes for Episode 5: When Your One Star Experience is Five Stars for Someone Else. This was in response to Gregg wondering what truth value people are attributing to the Bible’s truth claims, in the context of many Amazon reviewers considering Not A Fan to be a transformative book.

John wonders how this works if, as some believe, the Christian Bible is an “instruction manual for life.” Gregg offers a different view, contending instead that the Bible conveys true things about God, ourselves, and our world.  However it’s chief goal is to put us in right relationship with God, through the person of Jesus.

John shares a story about a friend talking with Jehovah’s Witnesses who come to the door where the Bible is referred to as justification for their beliefs.  John’s friend invites the JW’s to come back with answers to his questions on the condition that they are backed by something other than the Bible (which he doesn’t hold to as an authoritative source).

Gregg resonates with this because, in addition to making global truth claims (that the God of the Bible is the only divine entity), the Bible also makes very personal truth claims (that God knows me and  loves me better than I know and love myself).  And while we understand personal truth claims by reading about them in the Bible, we believe them only through experiencing them.

Returning to Not a Fan by Kyle Idleman (in the context of many Amazon reviewers considering the book transformative), if a reader credits the book with improving their life, Gregg wants to know more specifics.  For instance, it’s important to understand the person’s starting point and what’s actually changed or what they’ve “given up” in their life (and what impact or value the person placed on this).  Only then could one assess why that person would accept Not a Fan‘s presentation of certain biblical truth claims (with which we broadly disagree) and judge those claims as having real truth value.

In closing, Gregg notes the possibility that what the reader judges to be a real, lasting improvement based on “following Jesus” (as advocated in Not a Fan) might well be a partial (relative to a poor starting place) or short term improvement (because the full implications take time to unfold).  And importantly, this is where an inter-disciplinary approach benefits Christian understanding and practice: findings in psychology, sociology, philosophy, and other disciplines are essential to promoting better theological and exegetical understandings.

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In this episode John and Gregg discuss Chapter Five of Not a Fan by Kyle Idleman. They begin by wondering about whether the Christianity that Kyle Idleman is promoting is not rule-based after all, despite his claims to the contrary.

John discusses how many Christians see Christianity as a set of “principles” and consider the Bible as “operating instructions for life.”  Gregg argues that Kyle’s emphasis on Christianity as reward or punishment (see Not A Fan page 21, about going to heaven or hell as the core of Christianity) in fact keeps us bound to a rule-based perspective because guilt and fear become primary motivators in such communities.

Gregg further suggests that where Christians focus on “principles” they are typically oriented toward “protecting” God–ensuring right biblical interpretation and practice–and so contribute more toward building fences than building bridges, and that they tend to approach outsiders with a mentality of dispute rather than dialogue.  From Gregg’s perspective, this must change.

John wonders how obedience is part of a relationship, and Gregg considers that God is both parent and sovereign, and so obedience is complimented, quite literally, by love.  Gregg again argues that love and truth are co-central within Christianity and that love relationships are not first about submission but about desire–acting toward the beloved out of love, not duty.  So he notes that where it concerns God, furthering this love relationship becomes my deepest desire and the effect of this love on me becomes part of my identity that I love the most.

Here’s the Brennan Manning video Gregg refers to

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This week we discuss Chapter Four of Not a Fan by Kyle Idleman.  This is the book’s first mention of love, which Gregg believes has been sorely missing.  John and Gregg then both question Idleman’s use of Jesus’s proclamation that being a disciple means hating parents, siblings, and family.  Specifically, Matthew and Luke both convey this same message of “hating family,” and Gregg comments that Luke’s version is much stronger and yet both accounts contextualize the other (which Idleman ignores).  Further, he also ignores related texts in Micah and the very different implications this message would have for hearers in the 1st century versus today.

As such, we reject Idleman’s assertion that we are to love Jesus so deeply that we hate everyone else by comparison (page 58).  Nor do we not see this illustrated or experienced in real life.  Conversely, Gregg notes that the opposite usually occurs: when you deeply love someone you often find you have more love for others.  “Love begets love.”

Next, where Idleman’s poses the question of where we turn when we’re in pain (because this reveals our “true devotion,” according to Idleman) John laments that there is only “one right answer,” which is assumed to be “Jesus,” yet the book doesn’t establish a case for this answer or help the reader get there.

The punchline of the chapter is the question: “if following Jesus cost you everything, would it still be worth it?”  John answers “no” based on his own life experiences, while also noting that Not A Fan has done nothing to build a case for why it would be worth it–it’s simply missing or assumed, which is again unhelpful.  In fact, Gregg argues that this “why” is the most compelling part his own return to Christianity (and so what he most wants to express to others).

Overall, we challenge Idleman’s understanding of love: for Gregg our response to God comes out of experiencing, understanding and responding to God’s love, not out of our will.  You can’t will yourself into love.