Category Archives: Podcast

21: Your Terms or God’s? | Chap 8 of Not a Fan by Kyle Idleman

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In this episode John and Gregg discuss Chapter Eight of Not a Fan by Kyle Idleman. Idleman believes that Jesus decides what is most important and what He wants in a relationship with us.

Gregg agrees that what God wants is important, however he does not believe we are completely subsumed in relationship with God–what we want in this relationship is EQUALLY important as what God wants!  For Gregg anything else is a complete contradiction–how can God truly loves us if we are unimportant in this love relationship?

John questions the role sovereignty and Gregg runs with it, attributing Idleman’s view to misunderstanding how the Bible shows God to be both sovereign and father (parent).  In other words, part of “what God wants” as father is that we authentically desire God–of our own accord.

John and Gregg closely examine Luke 9:23 (“take up your cross and follow me”) but also compare it with parallel instances and uses in the Gospels (Matthew 10:38, 16:24; Mark 8:34; Luke 14:27).  Instead of emphasizing sacrifice and hard work (as Idleman does), Gregg argues that trust is the key element to “following Jesus.”  And trust within a relationship is based on what we have personally experienced with God.

20: How We Know God Loves Us

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In this episode we are joined by Tommi, John’s wife. Tommi explains how understanding grace at Swiss L’Abri allowed her to overcome legalism and yet she still desires to know experientially that God loves her (to “live loved”).

Gregg suggests that this minimally involves being open to and honest with God, including prayer, orienting my daily actions toward a potential love relationship with God, and focusing my energy on the major areas of importance (family, friends, etc.).

Tommi wonders about how (and how much) she may be acting to impede a connection with God. Specifically, she often discounts her value and so is unable to believe that nothing about us needs to change in order for God to love us. She also wonders how God heals us in this regard and how we may impede this.

After describing her experience of understanding grace (where she felt “loved”) by God, Tommi explains that she feels accepted by God without feeling “worthy,” and wonders if worthiness is the crux of the issue.

John talks about love versus acceptance, and Gregg mentions that he doesn’t understand the difference between love and grace. Tommi notes that for her “grace equals freedom” from “rules” because our mistakes are under the umbrella of God’s grace.

19: Dialog Fail | Chap 7 of Not a Fan by Kyle Idleman

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This short episode examines Chapter Seven of Not a Fan by Kyle Idleman. Our discussion focuses on the author’s story about himself at the end of the chapter.

Unlike every other chapter, which ends with someone else’s story, this chapter ends with a story of Idleman’s own. He met with the mother of one of his parishioners who, rather than being content that her son “fell in love with Jesus,” was troubled by his excessive commitment.

Gregg is shocked by how indignant and reproachful Idleman is toward her: Idelman becomes angry and writes “I did what I what I always do when I get angry; I quoted Scripture from Revelation.” Gregg argues that Idleman both butchers Rev 3:16 (which is not about being radical for Jesus but about being in right relationship with him) and that he takes what could be an perfect moment for a dialogue and instead uses it as a platform to punish and alienate someone who understands things differently.

Gregg sees this as a classic case of failing to love your neighbor and John points out that this seems consistent with Not a Fan chapter four where it suggests we love Jesus so much “that by comparison you hate everyone else.”  And so “doing God’s work” is given more value than “loving your neighbor” which we see as equally important.

18: No Room For You | Chap 6 of Not a Fan by Kyle Idleman

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In this episode John and Gregg chew on the presentation of the Holy Spirit and how the Bible is used to make certain points in Chapter Six of Not a Fan by Kyle Idleman.

Gregg notes that Idleman seems to want God to “move in and take over,” and so wonders what about us God actually does like (let alone love)? Gregg also questions Idleman’s use of John 16 because he finds nothing in that passage about “giving up myself” to have more of the Holy Spirit.

Instead, Gregg argues that being in relationship with God is not effacing your personality or losing your sense of self but becoming more, and most ourselves, by being in right relationship with God. The goal is not to empty ourselves, but rather yielding to collaboration with God.

John explains that Kyle’s view (that life only works with the Spirit) was a primary motivator for going to Swiss L’Abri. Gregg characterizes this as over-valuing the beneficial impact of the Holy Spirit while minimizing the effects of sin or being out of right relationship with God.

John asks what the Holy Spirit’s role is. Gregg answers that the Spirit fosters, cultivates, and renews our relationships with ourselves, with the world, with our fellows, and with God.  Thus, the Holy Spirit offers resilience to overcome things that would break those relationships.

17: Digging Deeper into Experience

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In this episode John and Gregg discuss Jerry Bridges’ view that “In order to trust God, we must always view our adverse circumstances through the eyes of faith, not sense” (Trusting God, p. 18).

John notes that he would have put the book down right there. Gregg comments that viewing negative circumstances solely through “the eyes of faith” contradicts the biblical importance of memory and experience, as God’s command to Israel to “remember” how God acted in past to deliver them (such that they would have faith that God will continue to deliver them in the present and future).

John raises the question of free will–the ability to choose his actions vs. being controlled by God.  Gregg notes that we are always trusting something, and that there has to be enough background or evidence to be able to trust God (as is what we remember).

Gregg notes that bible verses (e.g., Romans 8:28) can be used to manipulate outcomes: to blame certain people and exonerate others (most often oneself)!  This leads to a discussion of the problem of false religion: determining when religion is religiosity, which Gregg argues requires a multi-disciplinary approach (theology on its own is not enough).

John finishes by asking Gregg about his experience of being loved by God.  Gregg recounts his experiences as being a significant pointer to God where these experiences had the quality of being truly known, deeply loved, and being both affirmed and critiqued in his understandings.  So Gregg notes the importance of remembering his own experience of God’s love and goodness when adverse situations arise.