38: Sin’s Significance

In this episode John and Gregg discuss listener feedback directed to both of them. The feedback to Gregg suggests that those who do not focus on grace are those who have not yet understood the enormity of their sin (on the example of the woman in Luke 7). The feedback sent to John concerns the difference between the older and the younger brother in the parable of the prodigal son, and expressed concern that John remain humble even though he has not had significant moments of acting against his Christian views or “sinfully.”

John clarifies that while he has a hard time seeing “the gravity of his sins and shortcomings,” in no way does he see himself as better than others, if anything he envies those who have had more overt experiences of God, such as the listener engaging with us.

Gregg responds that often he hears responses of gratitude and thankfulness to God’s grace or forgiveness but that the biblical text, in the context of forgiveness of sins Luke 7, presents the matter in much better way: “the one who has been forgiven much loves much.”  In other words, the most existentially fitting response to God, in this context, is to love.

Gregg goes on to question how we view sin.  Specifically, where Christians understand God primarily as sovereign, sin is a list of things that we have done wrong (i.e., ways in which we have not been obedient servants and so merit punishment or God’s disdain).  But where we see God as parent then sin acts or dispositions, conscious or preconscious, commissive or ommissive, which thwart my relationship with God.  Sin in this context does not drive God from me but moves me further from God.
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37: Judging God

In this episode John and Gregg discuss Gregg’s approach to “untangling” Christianity.  John sees it as a major shift in orientation, much like Wayne Jacobsen’s view, that instead of thinking of God as a being who cannot stand our sin (and so had to send his son to die on our behalf) we should see God as one who deeply loves and desires relationship with us.

Gregg instead sees it as fine tuning: Christians are typically trying to “do the right thing” and and to make the relationship with God “work,” but it’s not..  John then makes a link to the discussion from Episode 25–Truth Over Love, about how Gregg views the writing of prominent Christian authors like Kyle Idleman and John Eldredge very differently from how there books are received in North America.

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36: Embrace the Grappling

In this episode John and Gregg investigate how (and how much) we see God as being involved in our lives, and how the perspectives on Christianity that we’ve been discussing / proposing differ from much of typical evangelical Christianity.

John mentions Wayne Jacobson’s The Jesus Lens, which walks through both the Old and New Testament.  John wonders what to make of the new explanations Wayne gives and the new perspectives and understandings that he and Gregg have been delving into. Gregg wonders if John is coming to an equilibrium between the Christian messages of his upbringing and this new content.

John notes that he almost feels that these new perspectives are “too good to be true,” in that this new sense of Christianity does not turn on angst, duty, and brute force.  John particularly values how these perspectives remove the excess mystery from being a Christian and relating with God, whereas his experience is that churches often use “mystery” to keep people from asking questions that they don’t want to have to try to answer.
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35: Love is More Than Grace

In this episode John compares grace and love.  Specifically, John contrasts a listener’s story and Gregg’s story (both being fairly radical departures from the Christian norm) with his own path of not overtly departing from these norms.  John’s epiphany is that the message of love makes far more sense than the message of grace (to him), because grace seems to begin with the notion that someone is horrible.

Gregg notes that grace implies a jarring sense of contrast with what one believes one deserves and so grace seems to show up better in relief, against a backdrop of wrongs committed.  So Gregg contrasts grace and love: experiencing God’s grace is typically framed as receiving what one does not deserve, but Gregg’s experience of receiving God’s love was receiving what he needed but considered to be impossible.  So the upshot is that if one sees oneself as being thoroughly undeserving of God’s love (God’s love is nonsensical to that person), they will necessarily experience God’s love first as grace.  But the pardon and gift implicit in grace find their source in God’s love–they are an expression of love.

Ultimately then, in Gregg’s view, the purpose of grace is to habituate us to being in a love relationship with God: first to accepting God’s love for us as love (so that we may see ourselves as deserving of God’s love), second to be able to give that love back (so that we see ourselves as capable–capable of being rightly related to God, to ourselves, and to others).
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34: Beyond Salvation | Listener Feedback

In this episode John and Gregg discuss listener feedback from Joanne, on Episode 31. Joanne commented on relating to God as “father” and “abba.”  Joanne explained this with reference to Romans 8:15, which refers to people being adopted into God’s family contrasted with earlier parts of Romans that also touches on slavery–a topic Kyle Idleman hit hard in Not a Fan.

Gregg identifies similarities in both Joanne’s and, earlier, Melinda’s comments and in his responses to both, where Gregg distinguished ‘how’ something takes place versus ‘why’ it takes place.  While John wonders about the significance of adoption in contrast to slavery, Gregg clarifies the context and purpose of the book of Romans.  In brief, Romans argues for the legitimacy of Jesus as the messiah who fulfills the covenant and bears the consequences for Israel’s failure, in Israel’s place.  In this way, the promise to Abraham is also fulfilled and as such non-Jews are now invited to enter into right relationship with God.  Hence “adoption.”
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