33: God is Not an Idiot–Grace and Truth | Listener Feedback

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Today’s discussion is kicked off by comments that listener Melinda left for Episode #25, which is also related to Episode #20, were the topic of grace versus love was also raised.

Gregg then turns to John to define and contextualize the notion of grace is in the evangelical world.  John equates grace with ‘pardon’ and as something that should prompt gratefulness from Christians (which in turn means stopping sinning and fulfilling the “great commission”).  Gregg summarizes this as grace being a hinge between the old testament period and the new covenant, and grace being a contender for the central notion in Christianity.

Gregg finds it difficult to identify examples of grace in his human relationships and instead sees grace as being rather distinct to God.  Further, he categorizes grace as an outworking of love, where grace (as gift, on the example of Romans 4:16) is a primary mode of the expression of God’s love.  Yet the gift at the heart of grace begins back in Genesis 12 with God giving a promise to Abraham before entering into a covenant.
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32: Justice is Easy

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This episode starts with John thinking more about topic of justice from the things Gregg shared in Episode #5. Gregg takes issue with John’s assertion that we’d all be better of if we all assumed other people were always doing the best that they can. Gregg wonders exactly what that means, especially when the stakes are very high.

John observes that some Christians are very focused on the idea that one day God’s justice will reign on the earth. Gregg sees this preoccupation as problematic and the easy way out. Gregg relates to his own orientation–that God loves him furiously. As a result, for example, Gregg is not focused on wishing justice for the wrongs previously done to him by his father.

Gregg observes how in the story of Job that God doesn’t respond to any of Job’s questions, but instead responds with God’s self. In the same way Gregg has experienced God showing up for him in a way that is real and meaningful and as a result he doesn’t need God to set past wrongs straight.
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31: Coerced Obedience | Chap 14 of Not A Fan by Kyle Idleman

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After a long journey we’ve finally arrived: Chapter 14 of Not a Fan by Kyle Idleman, the book’s end.  This is perhaps our most important episode on this book as it gets to heart of what we find wrong in Idleman’s “reward and punishment” approach to Christianity.

So in the place of Idleman’s view that following Jesus means obeying (i.e., “letting go” of what is keeping us from following Jesus), Gregg proposes three interrelated steps that necessarily precede and prepare for obedience (and explain why obedience may not be possible or even intelligible, depending upon someone’s current circumstances).

First comes belief: whether the notion of a divine being seems plausible for a given person.  Second is understanding: rightly conceiving of who God is and what the human / divine relationship is supposed to be.  Third is trust: having both the basic belief in the divine and a firm understanding of the specifics of who God is and what the divine / human relationship is about, obedience requires a certain degree of trust based on our past experiences that indicate that God is indeed trustworthy! Without these components it’s unrealistic to think people can blindly obey God as a lasting behavior.

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30: Swallow the Pill | Chap 13 of Not A Fan by Kyle Idleman

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Gregg opens with his view that Chapter 13 from Not a Fan by Kyle Idleman is among the most important in the entire book.  This is because it connects to (and helps clarify) the book’s core message: insuring people make “the right decision” and spend eternity in heaven.  In John’s words, the chapter emphasizes the need to “get your fire insurance policy in place before it’s too late.”

So when Idleman presents scenarios to motivate readers to make “the right decision” now and not put it off, John finds this inconsistent: when you love someone you are naturally committed to them and desirous of “doing the right thing” or spending time together–you don’t “put it off.”  So John highlights the irony that Idleman wants us to force (or even guilt) ourselves into a deeper commitment to Jesus, yet the relational content of Christianity is so sparsely presented!  For John, this presentation is ultimately empty and unsustainable: while the Bible may truly present who God is, such “truth” has no “reality” because there is no relationship (and so no life) in it.

Next, Idleman characterizes adult conversion to Christianity as occurring in moments of desperation when we are willing to “surrender all” to God.  John equates this with the book’s contention that becoming a Christian means becoming “a zero.”  Gregg also disagrees: because relationship with God is based on love (as the command to love God entirely), so the desperation + surrender model was never meant to be the norm.

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29: Biblical Extremes and Openness to Dialog | Listener Feedback

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In this episode we riff on comments Charlie left on Episode Two, about the Bible.  Charlie shares his conflicted feelings about how he views the Bible and and also his observation that many people just want to be told to a more literal view of what the Bible says instead of doing their own work to understand the Bible better.

So we explore the notion of Christians and non-Christians as being like different “tribes” and the their inability to relate to each other is often because they can’t find a common starting place, and which is ultimately an unproductive situation.

The conversation then turns to the topic of “dialog and dispute,” and how many Christians overly emphasize dispute and “setting the facts straight” in way that does not love or seek to understand other people.  We reflect on why some Christians might feel the need to work so hard to protect the truth (as though attempting to protect God).
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